Intro:
Several months ago I had the opportunity to have lunch with a dear friend of mine who I have known for over 12 years. Although our relationship started out as a family friendship it eventually led to our family attending their church – he is a pastor.
We were called out of the church about 3 ½ years ago to start an incredibly exciting journey which will not end – and actually seems like it only just began. I had recently been trying to share with him the truths that G-d had revealed to us over this short time by extending an invitation to attend a study in our home but he declined.
He did, however, accept an invitation to lunch to celebrate his birthday – as is our custom. I had intended to discuss, at least to some degree, our recent experiences and encourage him to look further and find the truth that has been covered from “our” eyes for nearly two thousand years. “G-d is calling His people back to Torah”….this most excellent news was answered with grave concern spread across his face. My friend’s concern was primarily regarding my relationship with Jesus Christ and I assured him that this was not a salvation issue but a sanctification issue.
He agreed to continue a discussion over email exchange as best that our schedules would allow…and so begins what I would like to share with you: “Thoughts from lunch”. This will be a short series of exchanges (there is a total of 2 emails from him and 2 responses from me) between the two of us that I have found challenging. I will post his emails for your review and practice on how you may have responded. Every few days I will post the next exchange.
Below (the first email) is my friend responding to my explanation of how we are to live out our faith.
Email Subject: Thoughts from lunch (#1)
“Hey Brother, Thank you for the lunch. I am glad we had a chance to share our hearts with one another. We are family in Jesus Christ. I was concerned, however, about some of your statements about the new covenant and what it means to live under the new covenant. My concerns come from the Book of Hebrews, especially Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 9:10, and Hebrews 10:9-10. Hebrews 8:13 uses the word obsolete in the NKJV. In Strong’s Concordance it is number 3822 in the dictionary in the back. The word means to make or become worn out, to declare obsolete. That is a strong statement about the old covenant. We can talk more after you study it out. Thanks again for the lunch.”
broughtclose
Greg
gupham
peter squicciarini
6 comments
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November 18, 2010 at 10:12 am
torahgirl
Looking forward to the rest of this series! I am interested to see what other people say about those passages in Hebrews… I’d like to know the best response.
=)
November 18, 2010 at 10:41 am
segulah
Shalom Brother!
I have so much to add to this discussion and my heart is full of joy to do so! In Hebrews, Shaul is teaching about the Levitical Priesthood and the Melkedzadok Priesthood- not the covenants!! Now, in our translations the word covenant is even placed in itallics- telling us it is “added” or “not in the original”. That is because the WORD is Priesthood!
Hebrews 8:13…. He has made the first old ( the first was the Levitical Priesthood) They had to go through ritual cleansing of food, washing, atonement sacrificing, etc to be able to mediate for Israel in the Tent and yearly in the Holy of Holies on the Day of Atonement.
Hebrews 9:10…. Messiah does not have to do that- He is without need of cleansing.
Hebrews 10:9…. He takes away the first to establish the second…. Again, it is the Priesthood!!! Not the covenant!
HaShem DID abolish the Levitical Priesthood in that the temple was destroyed- enter the High Priest Messiah established a better mediator between us and Elohim, this Priesthood is established by OATH!!!
I hope for more discussion on this very important issue in the Body of Messiah !!!
November 19, 2010 at 8:03 am
guitorah
Rick Spurlock’s (www.bereansonline.org) study, “How Much More”, on the Epistle to the Hebrews (specifically Lesson 17) as well as Discs 2 and 3 of FFOZ’s “What About the Sacrifices?” address these issues well. They are sort of technical, requiring something of a working knowledge of the temple’s parts and some basic Greek, but they are great resources and really get to the essence of the passages.
Shalom
November 20, 2010 at 5:06 pm
segulah
Shalom, it is me again. I was blessed this Shabbat to be shown where the scripture is that supports and proves the Malkitsedeq Priesthood was sworn by Oath of HaShem.
Psalms 110:4
“YHWH has sworn and does not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Malkitsedeq.”
November 26, 2010 at 8:17 am
Alex Burroughs
I am trying to reconcile Matthew 5:19 with Matthew 7:23 to be sure that this is not, in fact, a salvation issue. Any thoughts on how to reconcile these verses would certainly help me share my faith with others. Thanks!
November 26, 2010 at 11:44 am
segulah
Shalom Brother, It is with great humility that I will offer my thoughts on the matter of the issue you have presented. Hopefully others will add theirs also.
In Matthew 5:19 in context seems to me our Master, King, and Messiah is confirming the importance on the binding of the Everlasting Torah, His Teaching and Instructions -to the followers on the mountain that day. That there would come men, who not wishing to abide by the commands of the covenant would reason a way not to do so – and then also teach others their line of human reasoning. There is no one who has completely and perfectly kept Torah except Messiah, but through His atonement for us, we CAN have hope of being in the Kingdom. Also there would come those who believe in Messiah and obtain salvation but not have their eyes opened to the binding of the everlasting Torah and actually teach others that it no longer has to be kept. We have seen this for many years. And so, possibly their belief in the Messiah is their salvation, but their reward in the Kingdom for teaching that Torah is no longer binding is that they are called least in the Kingdom.
In Matthew 7:23, Our King seems to be speaking to us about how to identify False prophets. These people claim the Name (albeit a made up Greek name), do works in His Name, cast out demons in His Name, etc – “but they do not believe’ and maybe someone else can help us here – but I do not think Torah commands us to prophesy, cast out demons, or go around doing miracles – at least as a primary focus of our testimony and worship. Could He be saying these are lawlessness when they declare these things in His Name and their fruits they bare are bad fruits. The things they are doing in His Name are for themselves only, and all that is in store for them, is their reward on earth.
I am not sure I helped at all.
I hope others can also comment.
Shabbat Shalom!